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	<title>Comments on: Are we then good?</title>
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	<link>http://blog.electronicalifornia.com/2007/01/are-we-then-good/</link>
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	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:45:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Search for Meaning</title>
		<link>http://blog.electronicalifornia.com/2007/01/are-we-then-good/#comment-22112</link>
		<dc:creator>&#187; Blog Archive &#187; Search for Meaning</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Mar 2007 02:42:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.electronicalifornia.com/2007/01/06/are-we-then-good/#comment-22112</guid>
		<description>[...] Schaeffer states that Christians are the only actual realists. They understand that money, power, friends, family will all go away. That life on earth has no meaning and that one day they will die. There is no optimism, no hope in life itself. We don&#8217;t believe we can fix aids by hugging each other and buying red t-shirts**. We don&#8217;t believe in the &#8220;goodness&#8221; of man on his own. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Schaeffer states that Christians are the only actual realists. They understand that money, power, friends, family will all go away. That life on earth has no meaning and that one day they will die. There is no optimism, no hope in life itself. We don&#8217;t believe we can fix aids by hugging each other and buying red t-shirts**. We don&#8217;t believe in the &#8220;goodness&#8221; of man on his own. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Mark</title>
		<link>http://blog.electronicalifornia.com/2007/01/are-we-then-good/#comment-20291</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jan 2007 16:44:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.electronicalifornia.com/2007/01/06/are-we-then-good/#comment-20291</guid>
		<description>No one is really good, not even one person. I do believe we can do good but none of us are by nature good. Doing good doesn't equal a state of being good. Nasty criminals can do good and so can I, we aren't too far apart. In my humble opinion. 

An illustration: If jumping from the earth to the moon was good then we are all about 249,999.999 miles away. Even the most dedicated, unselfish, "good", person is only jumping at most a few feet higher than the rest of us. We all are left with this overwhelming shortcoming. No amount of good deeds or good intentions can make up the difference.

Depressing? No, actually it is hopeful. If goodness was dependent on our will power and human effort then it would be very hopeless. Like Bro #3 posted we often have good intentions of change and doing wonderful things but we stick with it for a while and then often revert to behavior that we despise. 

Don't get me wrong here, I am not saying we are worthless, no good creations. From a artist or creators point of veiw we are prized creations. The highlight of the gallery, each one of us. The issue is that we in and of ourselves when measured up to what is truly "good" simply fall short (way way way short). That doesn't mean we are worthless or that there is no hope.

Actually quite the contrary, since we have no hope of being our own saviors and once we give up hoping that we can save ourselves then there is tremendous hope for us.

So are we good? Yes and No. 

Yes, if by good you mean are we awesome artwork that is highly prized and unique, then yes we are more "good" than any of us alllow ourselves to see.

No, if by good you mean that if all of who we are and what we can muster up is measured up against who is truly good.

And yes I am biased because I believe in a Creator and Savior here. My goodness is granted to me, I am pardoned of my 250,000 mile shortcoming and I am good.If goodness is not a deposit from the Good One into your empty bank account then the pennies that you have worked so hard to save up will never stack up high enough to equal the millions we need.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No one is really good, not even one person. I do believe we can do good but none of us are by nature good. Doing good doesn&#8217;t equal a state of being good. Nasty criminals can do good and so can I, we aren&#8217;t too far apart. In my humble opinion. </p>
<p>An illustration: If jumping from the earth to the moon was good then we are all about 249,999.999 miles away. Even the most dedicated, unselfish, &#8220;good&#8221;, person is only jumping at most a few feet higher than the rest of us. We all are left with this overwhelming shortcoming. No amount of good deeds or good intentions can make up the difference.</p>
<p>Depressing? No, actually it is hopeful. If goodness was dependent on our will power and human effort then it would be very hopeless. Like Bro #3 posted we often have good intentions of change and doing wonderful things but we stick with it for a while and then often revert to behavior that we despise. </p>
<p>Don&#8217;t get me wrong here, I am not saying we are worthless, no good creations. From a artist or creators point of veiw we are prized creations. The highlight of the gallery, each one of us. The issue is that we in and of ourselves when measured up to what is truly &#8220;good&#8221; simply fall short (way way way short). That doesn&#8217;t mean we are worthless or that there is no hope.</p>
<p>Actually quite the contrary, since we have no hope of being our own saviors and once we give up hoping that we can save ourselves then there is tremendous hope for us.</p>
<p>So are we good? Yes and No. </p>
<p>Yes, if by good you mean are we awesome artwork that is highly prized and unique, then yes we are more &#8220;good&#8221; than any of us alllow ourselves to see.</p>
<p>No, if by good you mean that if all of who we are and what we can muster up is measured up against who is truly good.</p>
<p>And yes I am biased because I believe in a Creator and Savior here. My goodness is granted to me, I am pardoned of my 250,000 mile shortcoming and I am good.If goodness is not a deposit from the Good One into your empty bank account then the pennies that you have worked so hard to save up will never stack up high enough to equal the millions we need.</p>
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		<title>By: Bro #3</title>
		<link>http://blog.electronicalifornia.com/2007/01/are-we-then-good/#comment-19651</link>
		<dc:creator>Bro #3</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jan 2007 17:40:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.electronicalifornia.com/2007/01/06/are-we-then-good/#comment-19651</guid>
		<description>So this on has been bothering me for 2 days now, thanks alot bro!

I'm not sure that we are innately bad or good. 

I’d like to say we are by nature good, but this seems contrary to what I have experienced. Like you said in you “Grow Up” post “We feel drawn to touch the darkness. To be ‘deep’, ‘sophisticated’, and ‘adult’.” To be “bad” seems to come very easy without much effort, or some would say, it comes naturally. To quote something a 1st Century Hebrew Philosopher wrote to the Roman world:

“What I don't understand about myself is that I decide one way, but then I act another, doing things I absolutely despise.”

But our esteemed philosopher makes another good point. We also despise the bad things that are so easy for us to do. This is especially apparent in this season of making resolutions for change…we know what’s good for us.

By now most of us have stopped working out, started smoking again, forgot the brown bag lunch, and so on. We know what’s good for us but its really hard work to actually execute goodness. 

I’m left with really not knowing if this means we are by nature on or the other, I think I’ve got some more reading and experience before I decide (if I ever decide). 

BUT… I like what you say about faith, hope, and believing in goodness. 

What I do know is that I am happiest and most fulfilled when I believe in a good plan and act in goodness. I think reason that Mr. Autrey’s story you mentioned sends good chills thorough my spine and makes me want to do more good is that our appointment here is to execute goodness. We are programmed to believe in good, feel good when we hear about good, and feel even better when we do good ourselves. 

Now that I have worn out the word good, belief/faith, and hope to describe this philosophy of goodness, I would like to introduce one more worn out word. Its one you are familiar with, its goodness in action…love…no not falling in (or out) of love, puppy love, or Hollywood love…but true unselfish love, good incarnate.  

To conclude I'd like to quote again our Hebrew friend turned fanatic who I think sums this up pretty well for me: 

“But for right now, until that completeness, we have three things to do to lead us toward that consummation: Trust steadily in God, hope unswervingly, love extravagantly. And the best of the three is love.”</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So this on has been bothering me for 2 days now, thanks alot bro!</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure that we are innately bad or good. </p>
<p>I’d like to say we are by nature good, but this seems contrary to what I have experienced. Like you said in you “Grow Up” post “We feel drawn to touch the darkness. To be ‘deep’, ‘sophisticated’, and ‘adult’.” To be “bad” seems to come very easy without much effort, or some would say, it comes naturally. To quote something a 1st Century Hebrew Philosopher wrote to the Roman world:</p>
<p>“What I don&#8217;t understand about myself is that I decide one way, but then I act another, doing things I absolutely despise.”</p>
<p>But our esteemed philosopher makes another good point. We also despise the bad things that are so easy for us to do. This is especially apparent in this season of making resolutions for change…we know what’s good for us.</p>
<p>By now most of us have stopped working out, started smoking again, forgot the brown bag lunch, and so on. We know what’s good for us but its really hard work to actually execute goodness. </p>
<p>I’m left with really not knowing if this means we are by nature on or the other, I think I’ve got some more reading and experience before I decide (if I ever decide). </p>
<p>BUT… I like what you say about faith, hope, and believing in goodness. </p>
<p>What I do know is that I am happiest and most fulfilled when I believe in a good plan and act in goodness. I think reason that Mr. Autrey’s story you mentioned sends good chills thorough my spine and makes me want to do more good is that our appointment here is to execute goodness. We are programmed to believe in good, feel good when we hear about good, and feel even better when we do good ourselves. </p>
<p>Now that I have worn out the word good, belief/faith, and hope to describe this philosophy of goodness, I would like to introduce one more worn out word. Its one you are familiar with, its goodness in action…love…no not falling in (or out) of love, puppy love, or Hollywood love…but true unselfish love, good incarnate.  </p>
<p>To conclude I&#8217;d like to quote again our Hebrew friend turned fanatic who I think sums this up pretty well for me: </p>
<p>“But for right now, until that completeness, we have three things to do to lead us toward that consummation: Trust steadily in God, hope unswervingly, love extravagantly. And the best of the three is love.”</p>
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		<title>By: Casey Mara</title>
		<link>http://blog.electronicalifornia.com/2007/01/are-we-then-good/#comment-19647</link>
		<dc:creator>Casey Mara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jan 2007 04:07:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.electronicalifornia.com/2007/01/06/are-we-then-good/#comment-19647</guid>
		<description>I have often times pondered this same question.  Is man good or evil.  As a history teacher I can say as men we do a lot of evil things.  And some of the mosr evil people would be the ones that call themselves beleivers in hope.  As a Christian I have a belief.  That belief influences my way of life and thinking.  As a Christian I belief that we are good because Jesus has washed us clean and made us good.  Though we continue to d evil.  Complicated I know.  But then I think about a little child.  What is the first concept a young child learns?  MINE! Now I might be wrong, but that last time I checked, selfishness wasnt one of the fruits of the spirit. So as young children we often learn to be selfish.  SOme would say that they are natural instincts.  Instincs of survival.  Good point.  But does that make selfishness good?  Im not so sure.  

SO when I look at this conflict between good and evil deep within people I do ponder the question, are we naturaly good or evil?

I think that the evilness we see in this world are signs of brokeness.  Whether you one believes in religion or not, anyone can see that we as humans are broken.  We work long hours to gain money to buy a 62 inch Plazma TV that will some how move us up on the food chain of life.  Yet 3 months later that TV is in for repairs and we are franticly saving so that we can gain our spot back.  Humans have an amazing compasity to do good.  We can lookat all the evil in this world.  Our eyes are always drawn to it.  But I think that if we were to take a little time to watch a young person help and elderly person carry their bags to their car, we would see that though sex and violence sells, but as long as there is one person in the world that cares just enough to bring a homless person a warm meal,  I think that I can still have hope.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have often times pondered this same question.  Is man good or evil.  As a history teacher I can say as men we do a lot of evil things.  And some of the mosr evil people would be the ones that call themselves beleivers in hope.  As a Christian I have a belief.  That belief influences my way of life and thinking.  As a Christian I belief that we are good because Jesus has washed us clean and made us good.  Though we continue to d evil.  Complicated I know.  But then I think about a little child.  What is the first concept a young child learns?  MINE! Now I might be wrong, but that last time I checked, selfishness wasnt one of the fruits of the spirit. So as young children we often learn to be selfish.  SOme would say that they are natural instincts.  Instincs of survival.  Good point.  But does that make selfishness good?  Im not so sure.  </p>
<p>SO when I look at this conflict between good and evil deep within people I do ponder the question, are we naturaly good or evil?</p>
<p>I think that the evilness we see in this world are signs of brokeness.  Whether you one believes in religion or not, anyone can see that we as humans are broken.  We work long hours to gain money to buy a 62 inch Plazma TV that will some how move us up on the food chain of life.  Yet 3 months later that TV is in for repairs and we are franticly saving so that we can gain our spot back.  Humans have an amazing compasity to do good.  We can lookat all the evil in this world.  Our eyes are always drawn to it.  But I think that if we were to take a little time to watch a young person help and elderly person carry their bags to their car, we would see that though sex and violence sells, but as long as there is one person in the world that cares just enough to bring a homless person a warm meal,  I think that I can still have hope.</p>
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